I was reading a post over at Tin Foil Hat entitled Top 10 Signs You are a Fundamentalist Christian. I started to reply to it in the comments, but figured I would just take each one and answer them from a Christian perspective. I know he was having fun, and looking to incite us Christians, and that's alright. In any case, here's some responses to each. I've posted the list here for reference.
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
I do not feel outraged. I am astonished, actually, that someone can look around the universe and see the design of it all, and not believe in Intelligent Design. How can you see the intricacies of everything, and believe it happened by chance. I am amazed. That takes more faith than I could ever possibly have.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
I don't feel insulted or dehumanized. Like you say, it is more "dehumanizing" to believe that we were formed from dirt. As is said at many funerals, "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust." Every living thing decays and returns to the earth from which it was formed. But let's talk about evolution some. Let's assume that evolution did occur. Let's assume that a single cell organism was formed, and somehow went from being a single cell asexual organism to a multicell sexual organism. There are a lot of steps assumed there, but let's assume it happened. For it to reproduce, it would have to have a mate. And that mate would have to have undergone the same processes, at relatively the same time, and not only that would have to be capable of mating with it. And additionally, they would have had to have found each other, and mated. Multiple times, and then those offspring would have to find mates, and so on. Now, that is for just one species. This would have to happen for all species. Intelligent Design again is easier to swallow.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
Actually, the term used is trinity. Trinity does not mean 3 gods. God is muti-faceted. It is a very hard concept to grasp onto. God is omni-present. This means he can be anywhere at any time, and at multiple places at the same time. Studies have been done, and seem to indicate that God is at least 11-dimensional. We exist in 3 dimensions. Time is the 4th dimension. But to fully understand this, let's assume we live in 2 dimensions. And let's assume that God is 3 dimensional. Think of us a sheet of paper. Placing you hand to one side or the other. If we were the sheet of paper, we would not see it. If, however, our hand were to go through the paper, it would cross into the 2 dimensional world. And we could do this at any point in that two dimensional world, thus transcending time. Basically, what I am trying to say is that to fully understand God is not something that is possible.
Some have tried to give the analogy of the trinity as an egg. It has a shell, an egg-white, and a yolk. That is s simple analogy, but somewhat effective. God is three distinct personifications of the same entity.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
I can't even begin to understand God's reasons. God is omniscient. He transcends time, and knows the beginning and the end. He created everything, and I think His command is justification enough. Now, the problem that we have many times today are those that claim to speak for God, and claim that the atrocities they perform are at his command. I am no God, and I can't say. I have to simply leave judgment in His hands.
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
And that is why it is called faith. As I mentioned earlier, I think that it takes more faith to believe that there is no creator, than to believe that there is a creator.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
Actually, I believe that the earth is much older than a few thousand years. For some reference material, check out Reasons to Believe.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
Again, I leave judgment for God. "Do not condemn others, and God will not condemn you", Matt 7:1.
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
Rolling around babbling is not speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues has been so misunderstood by recent generations. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, of which speaking in tongues is one, are not around today. The gifts were given to the apostles, and could be passed on by the apostles laying on of hands. Those who received the gifts could not actually pass them on. The gifts were given at the time as a sign that those who were speaking were representative of God. These gifts died out after the apostles were all deceased, and those that they had passed them onto were deceased as well.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
Actually, that would be a terrible success rate. The point that you miss is that prayer is communication with God. Prayer is not God's ATM. Prayer is not our wish list for God to do. And answers do not have to be yes to be an answer. Suppose you asked your parents when you were growing up for something. Your parents could answer, Yes, No, not now, maybe, etc, etc. All are answers, but not all mean that you get what you asked for. Prayer is kind of like that. I like to think of prayer much like Mother Teresa spoke of it. When asked what she does when she prays, she answered, "I listen." When asked what God did when she prayed, she answered, "He listens."
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
On this one point, I will most definitely concede that you are probably right for many Christians. We would all do well to study more. Paul wrote to Timothy, and urged him to "Study to show yourself approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed."
These are just some thoughts that I had for your top 10 list. I actually appreciate the time you took to come up with that list, and I would love to have more debate on the subject.
Thursday, September 15, 2005
Answering Tin Foil Hat
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4 comments:
Well, there are some interesting points on both sides here, I think. As you know, I'm not a very particularly religious person, and consider myself Agnostic.
To be as brief as possible, I think perhaps that the "religious" and "science" sects are both only partially right, and that a merger of the 2 "theories" is probably likely.
One question I always think of and don't have a good answer for, is why is it all of the ancient cultures/religions believed in multiple gods, while many current cultures/religions believe in only one?
Also, (just playing devil's advocate here) say a very mortal advanced race existed that lived hundreds of years, who had a part in our creation... If generations of our kind lived and died through their lifetime, wouldn't they seem like gods to the much, much less advanced (technologically) humans of that time?
Personally, I find discussions on both religious and scientific creation to be interesting, and try to take both into consideration, in my "quest for the truth".
One question I always think of and don't have a good answer for, is why is it all of the ancient cultures/religions believed in multiple gods, while many current cultures/religions believe in only one?
That's a good question, but not entirely accurate. Hebrews are monotheistic, but a vast majority of ancient cultures did indeed believe in many gods.
There is a mention of the Nephilim in the old testament in a couple of locations...
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
Genesis 6:4
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.
Numbers 13:33
This would be something similar to what you mention. It's a tough question to answer. I have heard some who use these passages as proof for what you mentioned.
Good post.
I do have a problem with the verification code thing> Trust others
Oh well, good post
Thanks for the response, and I too am always up for a discussion. First, however, I must say that I did not write this list. It came from a website called evilbible.com. I don't know much about the site. I found the page with the top ten list using the Stumble On extension for Firefox. I thought the list was pretty funny, and for the most part I felt it was true, so I posted it to my blog.
Stacy, your response was very well informed, and I feel that you are probably not the type of "Christian" that this list is refering to. You have lead me to belive that by a statment in your opening paragraph
I know he was having fun, and looking to incite us Christians, and that's alright.
That statment proves that you have a quality that is quite rare in todays interpretation of Christianity: Tolerance of views that differ from yours.
When I have a little more time, I will post somthing that explains my spiritual views a little more in depth, but for now I need to get back to work.
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